Hi just wondered if anyone can help me. Engineer frome Warm Front came yesterday. Was hoping we would get combi boiler with grant but he said we don't qualify but could have condensing boiler. We wanted to dispose of hot water cylinder. Can we query this with warm front. Thanks 

I know when we had the surveyor round to look at our existing boiler he recommended we had a regular condensing boiler rather than a combination condensing boiler as he didn't think a combi boiler would supply us enough hot water.  They do seem to like to replace 'like with like' , but I can't see why you cannot phone the company who did the survey or Warm Front and say that you would prefer a combi boiler, they can only say no and then give you a reason for that.  When we first got our grant we weren't happy with the size of the boiler the surveyor had recommended and we did go back to the company who did the survery and said we would rather pay the difference and have a larger boiler.  This did take about a week or so to sort out as the companies doing the surverys have to resubmit their recommendations to Warm Front.

Hi thanks for your reply I'm going to ring them and see what they say.

Hello SadGran,, How did you get on.Sounds like I'm in the same boat as you.. The installation firm (Domestic and General) that came out (yesterday) to see what work needed to be done would only replace "like for like" i.e. a condensing boiler replacement and leave the hot water tank in place,which I did'nt want.I wanted a Combi boiler like yourself.I did'nt like the chaps attitude anyway and felt he was trying to flannel me.So on reflection I rang Warm Front today and asked them to send out a different installation company which they have promised to do... I am going to show the new installer this quote from Warm Front's own "What Can I Expect From Warm Front" webpage http://www.warmfront.co.uk/what-will-i-get.htm which you might find gives you some more leverage in your discussions.It seems pretty damn clear to me what type of boiler they promise! : -

Gas, electric or oil central heating
We install a combination boiler, up to five radiators including all valves and pipework. We may also repair your existing heating system.

I'd be interested to hear how you get on and any advice you can give me ...regards DawnRun

There could have been changes since we had ours done - January 2007 - but we were recommended to have a condensing combi boiler.  We also wanted to be rid of the 40 gallons of hot water in the loft which had to be kept hot 24/7 in case we wanted some hot water.  We couldn't have 'like for like' in any case because our former boiler was a back-boiler with a little gas-fire in front.

Saying the combi boiler 'might not give you enough hot water' - that is rubbish, because the hot water is supplied on demand i.e. you turn on a hot tap and the hot water arrives within seconds. So the boiler, apart from the heating system, actually provides hot water for normal purposes as and when it's required.

We both have a shower every morning, pretty well one after the other, and there is always enough hot water for both.  We've just come back from 15 days' holiday so as you can guess, the washing-machine has been going, and there has always been plenty of hot water.

I wonder if some of these guys try to 'flannel' a woman if she's alone, rather than where there's a man.  My husband has decades of experience dealing with all types of workpeople and I let him deal with them all, although the entitlement is mine (Attendance Allowance).  We got exactly what we wanted.  New condensing combi boiler in the loft, back boiler disconnected but not removed, gas-fire left in situ and connected, although we rarely if ever need that extra heat from it. All done to a very good standard and we were pleased with the politeness, quickness and efficiency.  The firm was Interglow of Royston, Herts.

Hi DawnRun I phoned warmfront but have the feeling I was fobbed off. She said there were reasons for not installing combi but have since spoken to a plumber who told me that a combi boiler could be installed. Received quote for work which exceeds grant £617 for materials and £2208 for installation work. Plumber also told me that a replacement boiler should cost between £1200 - £1400 so something iffy going on there. I'm going to write to eaga and will also phone w/f and ask for different installation company. Don't see why they should dictate what we have just because it's a grant. I was at work when surveyor came it was my partner who was given information about not being eligible for combi/condensing boiler. You expect honesty from these people but so far don't seem to be getting it.

Regards Sadgran

I am waiting to hear from my second installation company after I rejected the first company (Domestic and General) for exactly the same reasons as you.Incidentally the Domestic and General guy had'nt made an appointment with me,he just turned up unannounced and did'nt know the security password either!... The real reasons for not installing a combi are I suspect 1/. They probably get a massive discount on conventional condensing boilers from Ideal,the low end company they like to use giving them a bigger profit margin. 2/. A conventional condensing boiler is much easier to install because they don't have to remove your hot water cylinder and expansion tanks from your loft.If you have a combi condensing boiler fitted these all become superfluous and need to be removed. Therefore the lower labour costs involved with a conventional condensing boiler equals a bigger profit margin because they will still go ahead and charge up to and around the £2700 mark. 3/. If they were installing a gas central heating system from scratch then you can bet they would use a Combi condensing boiler because that would be the cheapest installation.They would'nt have to fit a hot water cylinder or the expansion tanks in the loft...but again you can bet the cost would still be £2700 plus. 4/. They are getting away with robbing the country blind and spoiling what is in fact a marvellous scheme introduced by the labour government... I can't stand spivs! 

I am really going to hammer home to them that their own paperwork states that you can "expect a Combi boiler to be fitted" I will let you know how I get on.. regards DawnRun

Hi DawnRun totally agree with what you're saying. I going to ring tomorrow and ask for another installer. The first one is Iguana Services this company is same as warm front and eaga. My dad had new boiler fitted February very bad experience and his installers were Kershaws of Cambridge so don't want them to install mine either. Looking forward to your next post hope you successfull and get combi.

Regards Sadgran

Like Margaret, we also had Interglow install our boiler and it was their surveryor who told us we couldn't have a combi boiler.  I wish now that I had kicked up a bit of a fuss, he convinced both me and my partner that as we have a large house with 15 radiators and 3 bathrooms that a combi boiler wouldn't be suitable. 

I know people keep saying how much they are being ripped off, but there is more to having a new boiler installed than just the price of the boiler itself.  There is all the copper piping, which is not cheap.  A lot of our copper piping was replaced by 25mm piping.  We also had a new hot water tank fitted and had the whole system powerflushed.  We were told if British Gas did the job it would cost about £4,000.  Whether this is true or not I don't know.  Right now we are happy with out new boiler, apart from the programmer where the digital clock is running 5mins fast a day.  I have phoned Interglow a few times to get it replaced, but the promised return calls have so far not been received.

Mercedes, you are right - the cost of copper piping has risen astronomically in the last year, in fact that's the reason for the thefts of any scrap metal including copper, that have opened up another lucrative source of income for thieves! They're even stealing manhole covers in the streets.

Your property is a lot bigger than ours - a 2-bed bungalow - but we'd had estimates from local installers (before we knew that I qualified for the WarmFront grant) and none was under £3K, that was 2 or 3 years ago.  One local installer actually wanted to hang a new boiler on the kitchen wall, thereby ruining my picture-tiles! Another one suggested that the loft was the ideal place for the new boiler, which is where it ultimately went.  What a good idea.  It's out of the way, it's on an outside wall, and the wireless controls are in the hall.

I too have been a little bit tired of all the uninformed talk about 'plumbers driving Bentleys' etc. 

Hi we live in a three bed semi with one bathroom and would agree that some new copper piping may be required. When I asked the advice of a plumber he told me that changing a boiler the cost should not be more than £1200 - £1400 which is what my neighbours paid earlier this year. Others that I have spoken to have said that a combi boiler can be fitted. This is the reason I'm going to ask for another installer and get my partner to ask more questions this time.

Hello SadGran,,, I rang WarmFront yesterday to find out who they had allocated to me as the Installation Company this (2nd) time.They said it was "Iguana".I said why are you offering me a company (albeit your own) who have already been featured twice on 'WatchDog' for overcharging and bad workmanship?... She did'nt know.So I said, thanks but no-thanks (again) and asked to be given yet another Installation company to which they agreed...don't know who yet though.. They really seemed most put out that someone would have the audacity to research both themselves and their work.

I asked about their like-for-like policy and the lady confirmed this was the case normally. I asked,why if you are going to replace my conventional boiler with another don't they renew my Hot Water Tank and Immersion heater plus the Expansion tanks/ballcocks as well because they will inevitably be as old as my boiler and will need replacing too by the same token... And that the combined cost of that is likely to be more than a Combi..She did'nt know of course..

Anyway I rattled her cage and will let you know how things progress.. regards DawnRun 

Hello DawnRun
   Good for you, rattling someone's cage.
   I am firmly of the opinion that we should rattle more cages, but it's how it is done that is so crucial. It's essential to do it in an informed and reasoned way.  Whingeing about 'plumbers driving Bentleys' and 'us poor old folk' gets you absolutely nowhere.
   My husband commented yesterday when he'd phoned abut getting his Blue Badge renewed (the need for renewal recently having been pointed out to him by a parking attendant in Switzerland!) that the lady he spoke to obviously wasn't used to speaking to someone who still had all his marbles. She tried to patronise him, 'was he sure about this' etc, but he was having none of it.  Patronise him - I'd like to see the person who could get away with that!!!!

Do you know that South Ayrshire Council are making a charge of £20 to issue/reissue a Blue Badge. I consider this as putting a tax on the elderly/disabled. What say you?

Hi DawnRun I rang too, on Monday, and am getting a new installer. I told them I didn't want Kershaws but person at call centre said they didn't know who it would be and that the first job would have to be cancelled and we would more or less start from the beginning again. We didn't have to wait very long the first time but it could be a lot longer this time.

Regards Sadgran