Many older people are having real trouble using the new Chip and Pin cards. Those with arthritis can find small keypads awkward to use while PIN numbers are hard to remember for people of all ages. Will such new technology eventually alienate as much of society as it helps? We want to know your views.

Hello,

I love to complain about senior-hostile technology, but let us be constructive: what other way of identifying a legitimate card user would be more acceptable?

- an additional physical token (some kind of keychain) carried separately from the card? This would mean trouble if both get stolen.

- the ATM or point of sale recognizing the person by looking (with a camera or scanner) at their face and/or fingertips?

- using a stylus to "sign" your name on a kind of touchpad?

- printing your photo on the card and asking the cashier to see if it really is you (would not work in fully automated facilities such as ATM)?

Looking forward,

Leszek.

I don't have a problem with any of the new technology, and I agree with Leszek - what other forms of identifying a legitimate card user would work?

On the other hand, there was an occasion very recently where I DID have a problem remembering my PIN and entering it into the machine.  This was to pay for a wonderfully-convivial family dinner-party for 6 that I'd arranged in a Greek restaurant in Leeds.  After we'd finished a 3-course meal and shared some bottles of wine among the 5 drinkers present - son-in-law was on call and stuck to Coke - I had trouble seeing the numbers never mind pressing them!!  But that was a one-off, and as I told my daughter, it was worth every penny!

I don't think this is the kind of thing you mean, though, is it??? Thank goodness for credit cards - as long as you pay off the balance every month and incur no interest charges, they're an absolute godsend.

 

There has been some comment on other boards that Chip n Pin is more about the banks covering their losses by putting fraudulent use at the customers expense & liability - after all a signature was pretty unique, fraud occurred because tellers failed to check them against the card properly.

Given that we now have Chip n Pin though if there is eveidence of usage difficulty then a campaign is needed for the companies to introduce checkout machines with large buttons just like telephones for users with similar difficulties. It will cost them a lot of money no doubt but this sort of accessibilty isssue should have been considered from the outset.

Sorry to be the devil's advocate again, but large buttons would make it easier for fraudsters to peek and steal a user's PIN. Unless each ATM is provided with some kind of enclosure to ensure privacy (difficult in street ATMs, i.e. those that are fitted into the external walls of buildings).

All the best,

Leszek.

 

I agree with Leszek.  To replace every PIN key-pad in the country with one having large buttons would cost vast sums, and to be safe, they'd have to be enclosed in something like a phone booth - an obvious target for vandals. 

Margaret

Yes - I agree but I didn't really mean ATMs as they have always required a PIN & people knew where they stood with them from the start.

But with the universal adoption of Chip 'n' Pin for every purchase all users now have no other option & the roll out of the system should have taken into account users of all physical abilities.

The cost to replace all shop machines will still be enormous but that should fall to the banks who are not known for being short of a 'bob or two' :)

In the shop enviroment all that is needed will be a larger opaque shield to prevent others seeing the larger key pad.

With accessabilty being a requirement these days I'm surprised this hasn't arisen earlier - perhaps someone will sooner or later take a test case citing that with chip 'n' pin for all purchases the small keypads make it impossible to use their card at all!

Hi Ed,

M&S, yes thats your very own M&S, have nice big key pads so it is much more user friendly for us oldies, and any one else for that matter, they are also very robust so will last longer. So why can't all key pads be the same?

I haven't had too many problems myself, but i have seen a few people who have, i have to agree the M&S pads are pretty good, but i have seen people struggle a few times in the post office, i find their keypads to be kind of "slippery" as the buttons seem to be made of plastic rather than rubber, which can prove a problem if you are wearing woolen gloves

Help the Aged believe that far too much technogy continues to be inaccessible and unusable by a large section of the population.

Our own research, recently published, showed that a significant proportion of older respondents  (45 per cent)said that they find it difficult to remember or use pin numbers.

The reasons many key-pads are badly designed is because designers often dont think about the end user - Far too many products are designed by young people for young people. Lets not forget that the older population spends something like £175 billion a year - if retailers and industry were better at designing services which met the needs of the older population they would easily recoup their costs.

There is an alternative to chip and pin - its called chip and signature. The cards look the same but when you get to the terminal it askes for a signature instead of a pin number. There are a large number of people who cant use pin numbers and should be offered chip and signature but the banks are failing to offer and promote the alternative.

It only helps the banks and big business. It is not safe, PIN's can be and are broken and hacked into. Some banks won't honour fraud, and you lose out.

In New Zealand you have the choice everywhere - PIN or sign. Why not here????????

   I am glad of the new technology.  A couple of examples: recently I bought a new garden shed from a small local company which makes and installs them.  The team arrived and erected our shed on site, a good job efficiently done.  We asked the boss man how he preferred paying.  'Either cash or debit or credit card'.  No cheques - he'd had bad experiences of cheques bouncing and not getting paid.  Cash would have been difficult - it was nearly £400 and we'd have had to go and get cash out of the ATM in town.  So I offered my debit card.  He brought his portable machine into our kitchen, I put my card in and entered my PIN - job done. 

   The other example is about my eldest granddaughter who has recently moved into a council flat after being homeless.  She got a bed through Freecycle and I offered to buy her a complete set of bedding and towels.  As she's 250 miles away I was able to do this online, ordering from John Lewis Direct, getting it all delivered and paying for it by credit card.  Without modern technology I wouldn't have been able to do all that. I have one very appreciative granddaughter, and more importantly, she's now sleeping in a warm comfortable bed behind her own front door, instead of on her uncle's sofa.  This morning even, my husband got his 4-weekly pension payment in and he's been able to check his bank account online.  Mine will arrive on Monday and I'll check my account online.

    Before the new technology none of this would have been  possible.

   Margaret

I could not agree with you more MargaretClare, the advances in technology have opened many doors to us. Obviously there will always be limits within the technological advancements though for us elderly; usability and accessibility appears to be the most problematic. My granddaughter is currently studying usability for the elderly on the web and often asks my friends and I to look at a website and then give an honest opinion about them. I was surprised at the amount of research people are doing and have been doing for some years now on usability for the elderly, there is lots out there. I just hope people continue to consider us so we are not completely alienated from this face paced technology world. Eleanor x

I agree with Margaret - the new technology can keep us up to date & prevent us becoming lonely.  The BBC gardening message boards provide information and a friendly site. 

Info also available on www.topveg.com